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Author Topic: Internal Links Question 1 - Dofollow or Nofollow?  (Read 1062 times)
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J1
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« on: February 26, 2009, 08:13:33 PM »

Do people think it's best to make internal links to unimportant seo landing pages (eg contact page, site map) nofollow or dofollow? I can remember reading a seo book a year or so ago now that claimed that internal links from the home page do not drain the link juice from the home page but recently - in another forum - I came across a couple of people thinking that links to pages such as the cotnact page should be nofollow. Would appreciate any thoughts.
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« on: February 26, 2009, 08:13:33 PM »

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« Reply #1 on: February 27, 2009, 09:02:47 AM »

dofollow is the default state for those links and since nofollow was invented to prevent spam backlinking which can only happen with external links I see no reason for you to nofollow internal links.

That would be a misuse of nofollow and a waste of time IMO, Matt Cutts opinoins on PR sculpting are well known, spend the time improving the quality of your site.

Does Google recommend the use of nofollow internally as a positive method for controlling the flow of internal link love?  SEOMoz

    * A) Yes – webmasters can feel free to use nofollow internally to help tell Googlebot which pages they want to receive link juice from other pages
      _
      (Matt's precise words were: The nofollow attribute is just a mechanism that gives webmasters the ability to modify PageRank flow at link-level granularity. Plenty of other mechanisms would also work (e.g. a link through a page that is robot.txt'ed out), but nofollow on individual links is simpler for some folks to use. There's no stigma to using nofollow, even on your own internal links; for Google, nofollow'ed links are dropped out of our link graph; we don't even use such links for discovery. By the way, the nofollow meta tag does that same thing, but at a page level.)
      _
    * B) Sometimes – we don't generally encourage this behavior, but if you're linking to user-generated content pages on your site who's content you may not trust, nofollow is a way to tell us that
    * C) No – nofollow is intended to say "I don't editorially vouch for the source of this link." If you're placing un-trustworthy content on your site, that can hurt you whether you use nofollow to link to those pages or not.

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« Reply #2 on: February 27, 2009, 10:17:20 AM »

You may have opened a can of worms on this one! Undecided I do use nofollow on internal links and have had numerous debates about the issue over the last year.

The nofollow tag started out as a way of discounting paid for and unsolicited links but SEOs quickly realised that it could be used to control the flow of pagerank internally. Since that practice appeared Google havent said too much about it but (as boogaloodude cited) matt c did say "There's no stigma to using nofollow, even on your own internal links". So that's good enough for me! I've been using it on client sites to pagerank sculpt and so far non of the sites have been penalised.

For a webmaster who isnt confident in what theyre doing with nofollow I'd recommend some basic structural use on registration links, login links, privacy page links etc. If you leave these pages unblocked then they take pagerank which could have gone to more important pages.

To clarify in the simplest way possible... You have a 3 page site:

home page --> product/service page
                --> login page

When NO nofollows are in place the pagerank passed from the home page is split between the product and login page. But when you add a nofollow to the login page link the pagerank that the home page gives is channelled FULLY through to your service/product page... So in theory that page gets more pagerank. It's a pretty sound theory. If it wasnt a sound theory one of the initial intentions of using nofollow (to stop pagerank flow to blog spammers and advertisers) would have failed.

If you know what youre doing you can use nofollow to sculpt the entire sites's pagerank and send more of it to the pages youre trying to rank. For example, people say "put no follows on your contact us links" -- not recommended if people search for your contact details. I personally would never block a contact page! But you could block some of the links to it so it is less of a pagerank stealer.

One factor i'd also like to mention which relates to large sites and may answer the "pagerank doesnt matter" critics... If you have a site with low pagerank the more pages you add to that site the more that small amount of pagerank is divided amongst those pages. When that pagerank gets too low the page is tossed into the supplemental index (other factors are involved). If a page is in the supplementals then the chances of it appearing for a competitive search are very low. Specific/longtail searches maybe but not for anything slightly competitive. So for that reason it makes sense to block all pages that dont require pagerank/rankings and give it to the ones that do.

One aspect that I am still investigating is whether blocking a page in the robots file results in it being dropped from the pagerank calculation or does it still build pagerank? If it does then blocking a page in robots but not blocking it's internal inbound links is a sure fire way to waste pagerank...
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« Reply #3 on: February 27, 2009, 10:33:12 AM »

In the potentially large site we have just finished, we have blocked non important pages just like Matt has described using no follow tags, the corresponding pages are also blocked in robots.txt

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« Reply #4 on: February 27, 2009, 04:26:40 PM »

matt c did say "There's no stigma to using nofollow, even on your own internal links".

True, but he also said:  "we don't generally encourage this behavior"

and:

"My analogy is: suppose you’ve got $100. Would you rather work on getting $300, or would you spend your time planning how to spend your $100 more wisely.

Spending the $100 more wisely is a matter of good site architecture (and nofollowing/sculpting PageRank if you want). But most people would benefit more from looking at how to get to the $300 level."




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« Reply #5 on: February 27, 2009, 05:00:40 PM »

"we don't generally encourage this behavior"

- means we dont encourage it coz a lot of people would screw it up and blame us.
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« Reply #6 on: February 27, 2009, 06:06:40 PM »

I rarely use the nofollow attribute on internal links on my sites, but I do see that at least in theory PR sculpting is possible. But I do use nofollow on 99% of our outbound links because most of the outbound links are to advertiser web sites.

I think the last time I used it on an internal link was because the Yahoo bot exhibited some bad behavior by hammering a few query forms and leaving those queries open, and that would lock up MySQL.

On our sites there really aren't too many pages I would block anyway. Also, since most of our sites are Joomla sites if I used the Joomla menu module system I would have to rewrite some of the core code so I could call up the nofollow attribute when it was needed.

Does anyone have any actual before and after data and results from implementing PR sculpting on their sites?
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« Reply #7 on: February 27, 2009, 10:31:17 PM »

"we don't generally encourage this behavior"

- means we dont encourage it coz a lot of people would screw it up and blame us.

Is one way of interpreting it, it could also mean:

"we don't generally encourage this behavior because that's not what nofollow was invented for and we'd rather you spent time improving the quality of your sites than trying to boost your rankings through internal PR manipulation ".

"There's no stigma to using nofollow, even on your own internal links" - because why would you want to do that? 

The $300 analyogy is the kicker for me.
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« Reply #8 on: March 02, 2009, 11:40:43 AM »

But, when have you read what google or matt c suggests with anything less than a pinch of salt?! Unless they say "dont do this or we will penalise you" im generally gonna put their advice down to subtle rhetoric to encourage me to build a better sites - which would make me a webmaster more than an seo -- who's primary role is to optimise whats already there.
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« Reply #8 on: March 02, 2009, 11:40:43 AM »

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« Reply #9 on: March 03, 2009, 01:54:49 PM »

Many thanks all for the replies - I have been reading them with interest as they came in.

Quote
For example, people say "put no follows on your contact us links" -- not recommended if people search for your contact details. I personally would never block a contact page! But you could block some of the links to it so it is less of a pagerank stealer.

From what people have said, I guess the following link structure might work:

home page  -> important page 1
                -> important page 2
                -> important page 3
                -> sitemap page -> all other pages including the contact page

One further question: from a design point of view, I often use the home page to direct the user to other pages, either with pictures (click here for ...) or just with highlighted hyperlinks (again click here for ...). If I do NOT use nofollows on the navigation menu options and the footer menu options (which I set from the master page but which I assume channel pr away from the home page) does it seep ADDITIONAL pr away from the home page by putting these extra dofollow links in?


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« Reply #10 on: March 03, 2009, 05:24:45 PM »

If a link isnt nofollowed, it takes pagerank. But that doesnt mean that you should nofollow everything that isnt in the main menu -- just makes sure that your whole site structure generally links to your most important pages most. So the links that you feature in your content should link to your best pages and that tells google "hay, i link to this page more than the others therefore its a better page and should get more of my pagerank!"...

Xenu is a great free tool for checking out your site linking...
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« Reply #11 on: March 04, 2009, 09:21:51 AM »

But, when have you read what google or matt c suggests with anything less than a pinch of salt?!

Never mate, not once.  Matt Cutts is Google's unofficial (official) pipeline to the SEO community, everytime they want us to know something without coming right and saying it he does it for them, when he speaks I pin both ears back.  .

It's simply not in Google's best interest to mislead or confuse us, that just results in more spam in their index, why would you doubt anything he says?

Since PR is such a minor ranking signal compared to relevance, I'm never going to waste time I could have spent improving the quality of my site or getting good backlinks, manipulating the internal PR flow instead.

"We don't actually want you to be successful," he said. The company's algorithms are trying to find the most relevant search results, after all, not the sites that best game the system. "The fundamental way to increase your rank is to increase your relevance,"  Eric Schmidt
« Last Edit: March 04, 2009, 09:37:30 AM by Boogaloodude » Logged

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« Reply #12 on: March 07, 2009, 11:34:55 PM »

Totally agree with Boogaloodude
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« Reply #13 on: March 09, 2009, 03:09:29 PM »

does it seep ADDITIONAL pr away from the home page by putting these extra dofollow links in?

If a link isnt nofollowed, it takes pagerank.

Just noticed these comments while looking over the thread again.  What do you mean?

My understanding of PR is that a page has X PR based on it's incmoing links and that PR gets shared amonbsth the outgoing links on that page but they don't take the PR away, it's still there, it just dictatees how much those outgoing links are worth.

A page has PR, the only way it can be reduced is if the PR of the incoming links is reduced.
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« Reply #14 on: March 09, 2009, 04:43:27 PM »

Yep, youre right... I meant if a link isnt nofollowed (or blocked in some other way) then it takes PR to the destination page, should have been clearer...
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